Electric??

[MikeM]

Let’s get some balance here. This is Toyotas position and already with 156 stations in place.

https://www.just-auto.com/features/toyo ... eutrality/

This is interesting but i wonder if the last sentence is the most telling? I dont know enough about this but i understood that the energy required to split the H2O molecule was cost prohibitive?

Also, there is some chatter re synthetic fuels - what are these and do they have a future?

The fact is there is a vast amount of development being undertaken worldwide and BEV’s will definitely have a place but likely will not be the primary solution. The issue is not how simple or effective the EV is over the equivalent ICE, that’s a given, it’s all about the fuel source. Capability, longevity, raw material supply and end of life disposal, all major factors. The BEV for now has been the simplest quick fix, they've been around in various forms for over a century and power capability/source has always been their limiting factor. Fossil fuel as a source will doubtless diminish over time and this current decade and beyond will see a number of alternatives brought to the market. Non of this gives cause to rush out and switch to BEV today, unless of course it’s what any individual wishes so.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... combustion

[pmg]

I actually think many fall including myself into a 10 th category: -

10) Those who accept an EV is perfect, probably better than ICE, for short journeys near home but have doubts about when the battery provisions and Uk charging infrastructure will be up to sufficient standard for reliable long trips away from home.

Many of these will buy an EV as a second car

[Deleted User 1874]

I actually think many fall including myself into a 10 th category: -

10) Those who accept an EV is perfect, probably better than ICE, for short journeys near home but have doubts about when the battery provisions and Uk charging infrastructure will be up to sufficient standard for reliable long trips away from home.

Many of these will buy an EV as a second car

I'm sort of in that category, except I'm happy with Tesla range and supercharging network for long haul driving. I actually prefer driving long distance in a Tesla to ICE. Engine noise and vibration (subtle as it is in modern cars) still adds to cumulative fatigue on long journeys. Tesla Autopilot also helps to reduce fatigue on long motorway trips. But the public charging infrastructure seriously puts me off buying any other EV unless used for local driving only. Something like a Taycan would be bitter-sweet to live with if you were dependent on public charging.

[bennachie]

Category 11. Those who realise that the EV is a vehicle for manufacturers to ramp prices and are waiting for a more realistic pricing structure to emerge

[Guy]

This has not been the case with used Tesla prices and there are plenty of 5+ year old models on the used market. I'll let you know when I sell my 4 year old Model X soon, but the residual prices are looking pretty strong. Much better than I expected when I bought it.

I thought your Model X was on a PCP? How do the figures work out, potential resale versus GMFV?

[happy days]

Just a thought on battery life over the lifetime the vehicle. If one of the main points in useable driving is the length time taken to charge the battery, would using fast chargers deteriorate the battery quicker than using overnight chargers? Is there a way of knowing the battery health?

I see Harry Metcalf replaced the iPace with a PHEV X5 (ok, its a while ago now) purely on rage anxiety. The X5 can do 50 miles purely on battery which is enough for most trips, but the range is still achievable using fuel.

[Deleted User 1874]

This has not been the case with used Tesla prices and there are plenty of 5+ year old models on the used market. I'll let you know when I sell my 4 year old Model X soon, but the residual prices are looking pretty strong. Much better than I expected when I bought it.

I thought your Model X was on a PCP? How do the figures work out, potential resale versus GMFV?

It is indeed, but the market residual is now about £10-15k above the GMFV, which itself was quite generous. This was a car that I very much expected to hand back at the end of the PCP 4 years ago, but now it's a no-brainer to buy and then sell on. I'm planning to replace it with a Model Y this year.

Here are the rough numbers:-

£80k list price
£45k 4 year balloon
1.5% PCP finance
£55-60k current market value
Running costs minimal on night time electric and free supercharging. No servicing costs.

It worked out pretty well overall.

[Deleted User 1874]

Just a thought on battery life over the lifetime the vehicle. If one of the main points in useable driving is the length time taken to charge the battery, would using fast chargers deteriorate the battery quicker than using overnight chargers? Is there a way of knowing the battery health?

I see Harry Metcalf replaced the iPace with a PHEV X5 (ok, its a while ago now) purely on rage anxiety. The X5 can do 50 miles purely on battery which is enough for most trips, but the range is still achievable using fuel.

Fast charging does indeed degrade the battery more than overnight. But most people don't actually use enough fast charging to make any significant difference. Some manufacturers are also much better than others at battery management which protects them from long term degradation. Our 50k mile Tesla still has 95% of its original range and the degradation curve actually flattens out over time. It's not a linear drop. So at 100k miles it might only lose another couple of percent, rather than another 5%.

[GTB]

Just a thought on battery life over the lifetime the vehicle. If one of the main points in useable driving is the length time taken to charge the battery, would using fast chargers deteriorate the battery quicker than using overnight chargers? Is there a way of knowing the battery health?

I see Harry Metcalf replaced the iPace with a PHEV X5 (ok, its a while ago now) purely on rage anxiety. The X5 can do 50 miles purely on battery which is enough for most trips, but the range is still achievable using fuel.

happy days,

without a doubt how you charge any rechargeable battery will have a negative/positive impact on the batteries expected life. Just look at say your mobile phone, yes there is a "Boost" mode if your battery goes low but instructions say dont do it all the time as life expectancy drops away and can be quite dramatic, also say your batter drops to 80% charge every day and you always always top it up to 100% thats also not so great as it actually helps the life of the battery to be almost fully discharged now and again, its all to do with the Lithium Ion cells and the chemistry and electrical aspects.
Also fast chargers dont quite from my knowledge charge right up to 100% range they stop just before that then charge rate slows down if you want to really get battery back up to 100% charge, this is handled in the software between the fast charger and the car.

So think of a 170KW fast charger please, that plugged into an EV that can charge at that rate its much like trying to fill a bath with a 0.5M diameter mains pressure water pipe, great and no issues until you get within a few inches of the top of the bath then you need to slow the full rate away down why? if you keep going you will over fiill the bath!

Also like mobile phones the battery degrades over time, it not a staright failure at X No of years, the battery will degrade based on charging procedures and methods, and also how the car is used and battery impacted, so short journeys against long journeys, full load against just a driver and gentle against agressive acceleration will all impact on the battery life. Everybody knows Samsung & Apple send out software updates to their phones regularly to try and prelong battery life, and Im sure EV manufacturers will be doing the same.

GTB

[GTB]

Just a thought on battery life over the lifetime the vehicle. If one of the main points in useable driving is the length time taken to charge the battery, would using fast chargers deteriorate the battery quicker than using overnight chargers? Is there a way of knowing the battery health?

I see Harry Metcalf replaced the iPace with a PHEV X5 (ok, its a while ago now) purely on rage anxiety. The X5 can do 50 miles purely on battery which is enough for most trips, but the range is still achievable using fuel.

Fast charging does indeed degrade the battery more than overnight. But most people don't actually use enough fast charging to make any significant difference. Some manufacturers are also much better than others at battery management which protects them from long term degradation. Our 50k mile Tesla still has 95% of its original range and the degradation curve actually flattens out over time. It's not a linear drop. So at 100k miles it might only lose another couple of percent, rather than another 5%.

Peteski,

The issue is you only speak about "most" people, and at this time high % of EV users do short trips/journeys, why because range is not long enough for lots of vehicle users at this time and I agree with you if EV Fast charger infrastructure was more readily availible more people would swap to EV. In the coming years far more people will want to do far longer drives or commercial travelers, engineers contractors etc sales people will want to use fast chargers all the time, as you have read from myself numerous times before EV's are a solution but not the only single solution for future transport.

GTB