Electric??

[Deleted User 1874]

Just a thought on battery life over the lifetime the vehicle. If one of the main points in useable driving is the length time taken to charge the battery, would using fast chargers deteriorate the battery quicker than using overnight chargers? Is there a way of knowing the battery health?

I see Harry Metcalf replaced the iPace with a PHEV X5 (ok, its a while ago now) purely on rage anxiety. The X5 can do 50 miles purely on battery which is enough for most trips, but the range is still achievable using fuel.

happy days,

without a doubt how you charge any rechargeable battery will have a negative/positive impact on the batteries expected life. Just look at say your mobile phone, yes there is a "Boost" mode if your battery goes low but instructions say dont do it all the time as life expectancy drops away and can be quite dramatic, also say your batter drops to 80% charge every day and you always always top it up to 100% thats also not so great as it actually helps the life of the battery to be almost fully discharged now and again, its all to do with the Lithium Ion cells and the chemistry and electrical aspects.
Also fast chargers dont quite from my knowledge charge right up to 100% range they stop just before that then charge rate slows down if you want to really get battery back up to 100% charge, this is handled in the software between the fast charger and the car.

So think of a 170KW fast charger please, that plugged into an EV that can charge at that rate its much like trying to fill a bath with a 0.5M diameter mains pressure water pipe, great and no issues until you get within a few inches of the top of the bath then you need to slow the full rate away down why? if you keep going you will over fiill the bath!

Also like mobile phones the battery degrades over time, it not a staright failure at X No of years, the battery will degrade based on charging procedures and methods, and also how the car is used and battery impacted, so short journeys against long journeys, full load against just a driver and gentle against agressive acceleration will all impact on the battery life. Everybody knows Samsung & Apple send out software updates to their phones regularly to try and prelong battery life, and Im sure EV manufacturers will be doing the same.

GTB

The comparison with phone batteries is not as accurate as it might appear. The underlying tech and principles are the same, but the lifecycle is not so directly comparable. Basically battery management on large scale EV batteries is a lot more sophisticated and robust than it is on a disposable phone.

[Deleted User 1874]

Just a thought on battery life over the lifetime the vehicle. If one of the main points in useable driving is the length time taken to charge the battery, would using fast chargers deteriorate the battery quicker than using overnight chargers? Is there a way of knowing the battery health?

I see Harry Metcalf replaced the iPace with a PHEV X5 (ok, its a while ago now) purely on rage anxiety. The X5 can do 50 miles purely on battery which is enough for most trips, but the range is still achievable using fuel.

Fast charging does indeed degrade the battery more than overnight. But most people don't actually use enough fast charging to make any significant difference. Some manufacturers are also much better than others at battery management which protects them from long term degradation. Our 50k mile Tesla still has 95% of its original range and the degradation curve actually flattens out over time. It's not a linear drop. So at 100k miles it might only lose another couple of percent, rather than another 5%.

Peteski,

The issue is you only speak about "most" people, and at this time high % of EV users do short trips/journeys, why because range is not long enough for lots of vehicle users at this time and I agree with you if EV Fast charger infrastructure was more readily availible more people would swap to EV. In the coming years far more people will want to do far longer drives or commercial travelers, engineers contractors etc sales people will want to use fast chargers all the time, as you have read from myself numerous times before EV's are a solution but not the only single solution for future transport.

GTB

I've never ever suggested that there needs to be a single solution for ALL future transport. There never has been a single solution in the past either.

[GTB]

Peteski,

Thats fantastic and really great to read that you do agree with me that there is not one single solution for vehicle fuels going forward and as such ICE vehicles are very much part of that solution as they will more than likley run on liqued e-fuel and we will have hydrogen and other gaseous solutions. Its just that your posts come across very much as EV is the only answer.

Battery degredation is complex and for the vast majority on this forum just wanted to put across simply that charging at fast charging stations 150/170 Kw or even higher compared to a 5Kw or 7Kw home charger is a huge diffrence. As a consultant electrical engineer I could have posted far greater technical info on this, but downt want to put people to sleep. So kept it simple yes there is an impact onbattery life of those EV cars charged at home and those that would use fast chargers all the time.

GTB

[Deleted User 1874]

Peteski,

Thats fantastic and really great to read that you do agree with me that there is not one single solution for vehicle fuels going forward and as such ICE vehicles are very much part of that solution as they will more than likley run on liqued e-fuel and we will have hydrogen and other gaseous solutions. Its just that your posts come across very much as EV is the only answer.

Battery degredation is complex and for the vast majority on this forum just wanted to put across simply that charging at fast charging stations 150/170 Kw or even higher compared to a 5Kw or 7Kw home charger is a huge diffrence. As a consultant electrical engineer I could have posted far greater technical info on this, but downt want to put people to sleep. So kept it simple yes there is an impact onbattery life of those EV cars charged at home and those that would use fast chargers all the time.

GTB

I'm only speaking for the future of personal transport, which I do think will eventually become predominately EV for your average 12k per annum driver. It's not going to work for everyone, particularly those doing galactic business mileage, but I don't think that is particularly relevant to a discussion about what toys we choose to drive around for personal use and daily commuting.

[GTB]

Peteski,
But buisness, commercial, service provision companies, emergency services, central gov, local gov transport departments and officers and managing Directors also make a transport decision as to what is the "Best" mode of transport for them.

You indicate you use your toys for "personal use and daily commuting"! Well I also use my Toys for buisness use as well and at this time and for at least the next seven years there is not an EV that will suit me nor an infrastructure that I would think is suitable.

Anyway we will always agree to disagree.

GTB

[Deleted User 1874]

Peteski,
But buisness, commercial, service provision companies, emergency services, central gov, local gov transport departments and officers and managing Directors also make a transport decision as to what is the "Best" mode of transport for them.

You indicate you use your toys for "personal use and daily commuting"! Well I also use my Toys for buisness use as well and at this time and for at least the next seven years there is not an EV that will suit me nor an infrastructure that I would think is suitable.

Anyway we will always agree to disagree.

GTB

Sorry, what disagreement?

[AllanG]

IMHO, this thread is getting very BORING with all this to & fro bickering!!

[Miopyk]

IMHO, this thread is getting very BORING with all this to & fro bickering!!

Agreed, no point posting your views or opinions as someone will keep popping up and tell you you're wrong

[bennachie]

Don't think you are right about that................

[Wing Commander]

“Oh, yes he is!”

“Oh, no he isn’t!”