GTS standard sports suspension versus ‘no cost option’ of normal adaptive air suspension ?

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Post by Deleted User 4436 »

RGS wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:02 am Early reviews of the Gen 3 GTS suggested that anything other than normal (comfort mode) would not cope well with UK roads. The reviewers found the suspension firm but ok on German roads, but raised a question mark regarding some of the UK road surfaces.
Same comment about Australian roads. Apparently they offer a “comfort” suspension option in Aus ( wonder if that’s the same non standard air option they offer in the UK )

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Nuclear Nick
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Post by Nuclear Nick »

On-Track wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:42 am IMHO nobody has done a proper comparison test on the suspension choices yet. For First generation and facelift cars, all air suspensions ride 10mm lower than steel. The GTS (on both steel and air) rides 15mm lower than the suspension on other cars.

For 2022 models, the S on air suspension rides 15mm lower than an S on steel (taken from Technical Data sheet on configurator). The 2022 GTS rides 25mm lower than an S on steel. Opting for "normal" air suspension means it still rides 15mm lower than an S on steel. All 2022 MY cars ride 3mm lower than their predecessors (I doubt anyone will notice the difference).

The reason for my opening comment is that nobody has properly compared the stiffness of the new GTS air suspension with that on the first facelift GTS or the 2022 S air suspension. It was the early Porsche statements that the 2022 GTS suspension would be 10-15% stiffer than the 2020-2021 GTS air suspension that has put the cat amongst the pigeons. My 2020 GTS air suspension in "Comort" is slightly stiffer than my SD steel suspension was in "Sport". That's just a "bum on seat" feel. The wheel size on both of my Macans is the same at 20". Would an increase in stiffness of 10-15% be too much? I don't know but I find the "Sport" setting a little too stiff.

For a prospective buyer to find out for him/herself they will have to wait until their local OPC has an S demonstrator on air and a GTS demonstrator or at least wait until a GTS has been reviewed on UK roads.
Perhaps not a bad thing that the air suspension has been stiffened up a little. Previously the comfort setting has been found by some, including me, to be a bit floaty so I always ran mine on the sport setting and lowered. Comfort in that setting was still superb.

But perhaps Porsche is now putting the ‘GTS’ back in the GTS.
Nick

Defender 90 V8

991.2 C2 GTS

Macan Turbo - sold

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pmg
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Post by pmg »

On-Track wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:42 am IMHO nobody has done a proper comparison test on the suspension choices yet. For First generation and facelift cars, all air suspensions ride 10mm lower than steel. The GTS (on both steel and air) rides 15mm lower than the suspension on other cars.

For 2022 models, the S on air suspension rides 15mm lower than an S on steel (taken from Technical Data sheet on configurator). The 2022 GTS rides 25mm lower than an S on steel. Opting for "normal" air suspension means it still rides 15mm lower than an S on steel. All 2022 MY cars ride 3mm lower than their predecessors (I doubt anyone will notice the difference).

The reason for my opening comment is that nobody has properly compared the stiffness of the new GTS air suspension with that on the first facelift GTS or the 2022 S air suspension. It was the early Porsche statements that the 2022 GTS suspension would be 10-15% stiffer than the 2020-2021 GTS air suspension that has put the cat amongst the pigeons. My 2020 GTS air suspension in "Comort" is slightly stiffer than my SD steel suspension was in "Sport". That's just a "bum on seat" feel. The wheel size on both of my Macans is the same at 20". Would an increase in stiffness of 10-15% be too much? I don't know but I find the "Sport" setting a little too stiff.

For a prospective buyer to find out for him/herself they will have to wait until their local OPC has an S demonstrator on air and a GTS demonstrator or at least wait until a GTS has been reviewed on UK roads.
Agreed, but will the S demonstrators have air and what will be the wheel size 20 or 21. GTS prospective buyers need to compare new GTS suspension on 21 's with new "S" with air on 21's. having said that 21 wheels have put me off a Gen3 GTS if I ever buy another Macan and so I am now a definitely "floaty" air 20 lover.

Also easy to overlook with Sports Chrono the three stiffness settings between normal through Sports to Sport plus. there is a possibility higher S has all three usable on Uk roads and lower GTS only normal and sports "usable" in UK
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Post by F1 Nut »

Imagine being a SE having to explain these options.....!! :shock:
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Post by On-Track »

Nuclear Nick wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:51 am
Perhaps not a bad thing that the air suspension has been stiffened up a little. Previously the comfort setting has been found by some, including me, to be a bit floaty so I always ran mine on the sport setting and lowered. Comfort in that setting was still superb.

But perhaps Porsche is now putting the ‘GTS’ back in the GTS.
When the GTS first came out there was the implication that the suspension was different to the remainder of the Macan range. I've shown below the wording from the original GTS brochure.

We build sports cars for people with passion. For those who want to feel life more directly, we make the Macan GTS. Its sports suspension is 15 mm lower than the Macan S and tuned for ultimate sports performance - to match its high levels of power. And for close, intensive contact with the road.

Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM)

PASM is fitted as standard. It is an electronic damping control system. It adjust the damping force based on current road conditions and driving style. There is a choice of three modes that adapt to the current driving situation: "Comfort", "SPORT" and "SPORT PLUS". For increased driving stability, safety and comfort.

Air Suspension

Optional air suspension including PASM makes your Macan GTS 10 mm lower. Thanks to the self-levelling and height adjustment functions, the system unites the contracictory qualities of maximum driving comfort and tremendous sports performance.


Whilst the reviews at the time highlighted the sporty handling of the GTS, for fairly obvious commercial reasons, Porsche never published the spring rates (either for the steel or air springs). So though the GTS rode lower than the S and Turbo and was hinted as being stiffer only Porsche know the truth.

All this is a very long way of saying I think a GTS on air suspension rides differently to either an S or Turbo on air suspension. As I've never ridden in either an S or Turbo on air suspension I can't be sure.
Peter

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Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

F1 Nut wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:35 pm Imagine being a SE having to explain these options.....!! :shock:
Along with “ yes, I know its on the option list, but if you select it you wont get your car for 12 months”
Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

Ok, slightly daft question but how does Porsche air suspension work? Is it airbags like in American low riders or is it something different?

And how does PASM work? Is it like the audi system with magnetic bits in the hydraulic fluid that are stiffened up using magnetic wizardry?

Probably a basic question I should have asked ages ago
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Post by cc3 »

Whole milk not skimmed !
I am sticking with the default option.
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Post by Nuclear Nick »

OmniCognateSnr wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:29 pm Ok, slightly daft question but how does Porsche air suspension work? Is it airbags like in American low riders or is it something different?

And how does PASM work? Is it like the audi system with magnetic bits in the hydraulic fluid that are stiffened up using magnetic wizardry?

Probably a basic question I should have asked ages ago
The Porsche system uses air bags in place of steel springs.

PASM is continuously variable damping by regulating the flow of oil in the dampers using actuators to operate bypass valves. It does this both by the settings controlled by the driver but also by 'learning' how the car is being driven and thus adapting the damping to the forces experienced by the car.
Nick

Defender 90 V8

991.2 C2 GTS

Macan Turbo - sold

BMW K1300S, BMW R1250 GSA
Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

Nuclear Nick wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:15 pm
OmniCognateSnr wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:29 pm Ok, slightly daft question but how does Porsche air suspension work? Is it airbags like in American low riders or is it something different?

And how does PASM work? Is it like the audi system with magnetic bits in the hydraulic fluid that are stiffened up using magnetic wizardry?

Probably a basic question I should have asked ages ago
The Porsche system uses air bags in place of steel springs.

PASM is continuously variable damping by regulating the flow of oil in the dampers using actuators to operate bypass valves. It does this both by the settings controlled by the driver but also by 'learning' how the car is being driven and thus adapting the damping to the forces experienced by the car.
Thanks.
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